# Tribute to Slava Pestov

## maggethun — 2011-10-03 07:34:05

    Dear Friends,

    my health has been going down rapidly for a while,

    I could no longer travel to my Uni, barely coped

    with looking after myself, until I decided to go

    into a home where I am treated exceptionally well.

    I got myself a computer, internet, email again

    with username phimvt, but provided by google (gmail).

    So, this is my first email to the group.

    La Trobe has re-organised all its web pages according

    to some templates imposed from above. That meant that

    a lot, not just mine, became disconnected and resulted

    in many dead links all over the web. After some quite

    exhausting negotiations my own pages were reconnected

    with a small change: the "philosophy" part of my

    pages is no longer operative. My homepage is now

          www.latrobe.edu.au/phimvt/

    and the Joy pages just have "joy/" appended.

    I want to use this my first email to the group to do

    what I should have done years ago. Slava Pestov has

    designed and implemented his Factor language over

    quite some time now. The result is a most impressive

    piece of work. The design goes well beyond what I

    ever dreamed of for Joy, and the implementation is

    professional and clearly far superior than that of Joy.

    There is already a huge library for all sorts of things.

    And, very importantly, there are many users who are

    contributing in one way or another.

    So, Slava, this is my tribute to your work. I also

    want to congratulate you on your Master's. I tried

    to read some early bits of your thesis, but had to

    look up "direct sum of vector spaces", and shortly

    after that I just gave up. Anyhow, well done.

    And what should happen to Joy? With a far superior

    alternative around, it would be pointless for me

    to patch up the existing Joy either as the language

    or in the implementation. Besides, I am too frail

    now and don't have the energy for any major project.

    Should somebody else design a kind of Joy2? Maybe,

    but probably not. It would have to be significantly

    different from Factor to make it worthwhile. But I

    don't know Factor well enough to say what could be

    different enough for that. However, I do think that

    in the Joy libraries there are a few techniques

    (especially continuations to implement backtracking)

    that are useful. Maybe these should be translated

    into Factor.

    I hope all you members of the group are thriving.

    I'll be around again!

    - Manfred

## John Carter — 2011-10-04 05:45:49

    On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 8:34 PM, maggethun <phimvt@...> wrote:

     > Dear Friends,

    >

    > my health has been going down rapidly for a while,

     I am very sorry to read this, take care of yourself!

     > So, Slava, this is my tribute to your work.

     What generous spirit!

     > Anyhow, well done.

     Indeed, Slava's work is a major accomplishment.

     > And what should happen to Joy?

     The Joy of Joy to me was always it's startling simplicity.

    It was a much needed clarion call indicating, nay DEMONSTRATING, that

    the march to ever more complex languages is ill advised.

    Even better, Joy demonstrated that simplicity carried deep value.

    As such I hope it is always around to admonish the industry.

     > Besides, I am too frail

    > now and don't have the energy for any major project.

     Take it easy, and many thanks for your many contributions and your

    kind, gentle and ever informative replies to me and others over the years.

    --

    John Carter                             Phone : (64)(3) 358 6639

    Tait Electronics                        Fax   : (64)(3) 359 4632

    PO Box 1645 Christchurch                Email : john.carter@...

    New Zealand

    --

    John Carter                             Phone : (64)(3) 358 6639

    Tait Electronics                        Fax   : (64)(3) 359 4632

    PO Box 1645 Christchurch                Email : john.carter@...

    New Zealand

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## pml060912 — 2011-10-08 13:29:57

    --- In concatenative@yahoogroups.com, John Carter <john.carter@...> wrote:

     >

    > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 8:34 PM, maggethun <phimvt@...> wrote:

    > > Dear Friends,

     .

    .

    .

     > > And what should happen to Joy?

    >

    > The Joy of Joy to me was always it's startling simplicity.

    >

    > It was a much needed clarion call indicating, nay DEMONSTRATING, that

    > the march to ever more complex languages is ill advised.

    >

    > Even better, Joy demonstrated that simplicity carried deep value.

    >

    > As such I hope it is always around to admonish the industry.

     I tried to take that even further, in my work on Furphy (see http://users.beagle.com.au/peterl/furphy.html). But with that I was not aiming at a language directly, but on the one hand to see if the testbed approach gave rise to features that might be useful in Forth (I think it did, but not very useful), and on the other hand I wanted to strip the basis down to the simplest possible to ensure consistency and fewer special cases to test during implementation - but after that I wanted to put syntactic sugar on for programmer convenience. It looks uncomfortably impractical without that syntactic sugar, though it has all the power necessary, and in fact ANY source compiles to something if there is no syntactic sugar. P.M.Lawrence.